<zanthed:eridan.me> there's a reason why GrapheneOS doesn't come with things like microG or enable signature spoofing. because it's not required for baseline compatibility

<guillaume47:matrix.org> I thought we need microG for that

<afr:tchncs.de> Hello everyone. What's the latest on fake Google APIs or making tools such as microG or gApps minimally functional? I don't want Google on my phone, that's why I use GrapheneOS but it's becoming more and more difficult to run Android apps. Many have soft Google depencies for no obvious reasons and just refuse to work on phones without GSF. I'm wondering if there is anything in the pipe that could relax that a bit? I

<sb13x:matrix.org> > <@afr:tchncs.de> Hello everyone. What's the latest on fake Google APIs or making tools such as microG or gApps minimally functional? I don't want Google on my phone, that's why I use GrapheneOS but it's becoming more and more difficult to run Android apps. Many have soft Google depencies for no obvious reasons and just refuse to work on phones without GSF. I'm wondering if there is anything in the pipe that coul

<mkljczk:mkljczk.pl> > <@afr:tchncs.de> Hello everyone. What's the latest on fake Google APIs or making tools such as microG or gApps minimally functional? I don't want Google on my phone, that's why I use GrapheneOS but it's becoming more and more difficult to run Android apps. Many have soft Google depencies for no obvious reasons and just refuse to work on phones without GSF. I'm wondering if there is anything in the pipe that co

<bearbyte:matrix.org> Pay attention to the gcam version as stated on github. Since I have one of the newest (8.1) this won't work and you have to use microg instead.

<bearbyte:matrix.org> > <@afr:tchncs.de> Hello everyone. What's the latest on fake Google APIs or making tools such as microG or gApps minimally functional? I don't want Google on my phone, that's why I use GrapheneOS but it's becoming more and more difficult to run Android apps. Many have soft Google depencies for no obvious reasons and just refuse to work on phones without GSF. I'm wondering if there is anything in the pipe that c

<bearbyte:matrix.org> Just take all permissions from microg and you should be fine.

<sb13x:matrix.org> > <@bearbyte:matrix.org> Just take all permissions from microg and you should be fine.

<arivo:matrix.org> I don't really have a pixel right now. I want to decide before I get one. I'm mostly trying to decide if I can live with an OS without microG

<ghostsplintersix:matrix.org> > <@arivo:matrix.org> I don't really have a pixel right now. I want to decide before I get one. I'm mostly trying to decide if I can live with an OS without microG

<sb13x:matrix.org> > <@arivo:matrix.org> I don't really have a pixel right now. I want to decide before I get one. I'm mostly trying to decide if I can live with an OS without microG

<h3rm3s:tchncs.de> Does microg works on graphene?

<akc3n:tchncs.de> > <@h3rm3s:tchncs.de> Does microg works on graphene?

<strcat:grapheneos.org> btw since misinformation is being spread about this again by a malicious project, the reason that microG as a user app able to pretend to be Google Play services is dangerous and allows other apps to intercept data is because they trust it to handle their data but it does not enforce the expected security model or checks on other apps/components

<strcat:grapheneos.org> it's dangerous and allows interception of data even with signature spoofing only allowed to be used by microG

<strcat:grapheneos.org> I reported a vulnerability to unifiednlp about this kind of thing a long time ago but only a special case of it was fixed rather than fixing all of it including in microG

<KileXt:telegram> I use Gcam on a shelter profile with microg. Thats the way to use your camera at 100% (re @GrapheneOSBridgeBot: <kelmscott:matrix.org> What are the camera apps like on GrapheneOS?)

<strcat:grapheneos.org> microG isn't really supported, it mostly can't work without OS integration for tricking other apps into thinking it is the official Play services

edsh[m]: natopon: no, that's not correct, CalyxOS is significantly less secure than the stock OS and we've identified local and remote code execution vulnerabilities via microG along with the ability for apps to intercept data inbound for other apps

microG was not very receptive to us reporting these problems when we were initially doing that

microG requires the OS to trick other apps into thinking that it is Play services but then it doesn't maintain the security model expected of those APIs

quick question regarding "We’ll be implementing this in the near future to provide the option of using GrapheneOS builds of microG." - is there already a rough timeline for this?

really Im just looking to get a working microG down the line as non-instant messenger is annoying and the country-wide taxi app not working at all (it embeds gmaps to display/track the taxi you requested) is an actual problem

That is old info, first they were suppose to implement actual microg but they are not going to do that.

<helloriasgremory "Is there any plans on getting th"> I use the app with success on my 3a. It only works when microg is installed.

Can one get MicroG on GrapheneOS?

you can install microG, it probably won't help you though

but it's more likely that there will be a future where actual Play services works on GrapheneOS than microG

I would be more comfortable setting up something to make it so you could install Play services in a specific profile and have it largely work than microG...

but if we trick them into thinking microG is Play services and it doesn't provide the same security such as ignoring signature enforcement for components, no TLS pinning then that would be our fault

if an app works with microG it hardly depends on Play services and they could easily avoid the dependency

Unless it requires microG

GrapheneOS doesn't come with microG nor supports it. To my knowledge the official German contact tracing app relies on Exposure Notification, perhaps microG includes it.

Is CalyxOS exactly the same as graphene except that it emulates Google Play Services with microG?

I forgot the name of the one that's just like graphene but with microG

also worth noting microG does not enforce the security model the Play services APIs are supposed to have and therefore the OS making apps think it is Play services compromises the security of the data they send through it

I could have sworn that someone on matrix mentioned a fork of graphene that supported either microG or google play, was this just a figment of my imagination?

Look into something called microg, should allow you to run it

What's your opinion on microg.org/?

I cannot make any GPS services work on any map applications like Osmand or Waze. Does anyone else have this problem? Do I have to implement google services with MicroG to make GPS services to work?

Is it a retarded Idea to install some kind of gapps? (Or MicroG?)

<o​leanderxoxo1> There are other secure roms out there which works with microG

<c​lannad> Microg itself is insecure

<c​lannad> And you can go and see the endless amount of code they take from lineage along with all the weird apps they ship right into system along with microg

<c​lannad> They also introduce Google applications into the system. It's not just a microg problem

Isn't microg optional?

<c​lannad> They ship Google applications that would constantly keep crashing if microg was absent from the system

<o​leanderxoxo1> It is optional there, and, madaidans-insecurities.github.io/an…id.html#microg-signature-spoofingIt isn't that bad

<c​lannad> @madaidan reviewed calyx' implementation of signature spoofing and not microg itself

They should give users choice, if they want clean or with microg and other apps

<c​lannad> Microg has to be there on calyx otherwise some of the apps they add will continuously crash

<q​ua3k> i don’t know why you would use calyx without microg

OK, so my question regarding MicroG/Gapps is sufficiently answered. "We are not shipping an insecure implementation of GMS on grapheneos" sounds like clear priority on security over everything else

<c​lannad> There are many actual security issues with having microg apart from just signature spoofing

<itsokiwantogohom "> <@blackmailing_ferret:matrix.o"> You can install GApps. If they work without Google Play services, ypu can use them. If not, as was mentioned, do not use microG. Which GApps are essential to you anyways? Can you replace them?

* You can install GApps. If they work without Google Play services, you can use them. If not, as was mentioned, do not use microG. Which GApps are essential to you anyways? Can you replace them?

<m​adaidan> @oleanderxoxo1 That's referring to Calyx's restrictions on signature spoofing which is less bad than some other implementations but doesn't completely negate the attack surface of microG / signature spoofing.

so yes, the point is if you want to use google services - don't use microg, use stock Android rom

same reason why microg isn't included

BTW just a moderator warning here. Don't discuss about microg or calyx here

Why? Because the information about microg is already covered by our FAQ and this is the grapheneos chat

<somenerd[m] "same reason why microg isn't inc"> Microg is a privileged system app with poor security practices in many cases. We wanted to ship it as a user app to reduce the attack surface but even then it is terrible

* Microg is a privileged system app with poor security practices. We wanted to ship it as a user app to reduce the attack surface but even then it is terrible

gyus, i'd like a few precision before going for a graphene phone. Are google Pixel phone thrustworthy ? I mean no internal backdoor, or hidden things like intel me module ? And also is there a way on grapheneOS to install microG components or similar solutions to benefit of  some  play store apps ?

So, I'm wondering... is it possible to install microG on GrapheneOS on my Pixel 3? I followed this guide to install it: redandblack.io/blog/2020/using-google-camera-on-grapheneos but I'm not sure what to do later. What app from the F-droid repository shoudl I download and what should I configure?

I think you'd have to use calyx if you wanted microg

ok. I read about using calix instead, as it's practically a graphene based OS + microg, is that right and how much difference it is in terms of the security config from grapheneos?

Some of the data on Plexus is wrong tho.. Like it says snapchat works with microg but yeah you can open the app and "use" it but you cant actually make an account or log in:D

<K​ileXt> Using microg on a shelter work profile it worked

<!ㅤ> I use Snapchat without Microg

<R​edeemedSonOfGodKJV> I'm about to transition to GrapheneOS from CalyxOS tonight. I'm aware of the microg difference. Anything else I should be aware of? I am planning on going to the Android 10-based version of GrapheneOS because I need my vzw visual voicemail to text to absolutely work. Anything I should know about this being fixed on the current version of GrapheneOS or any other caveats before I jump?

<jj1013[m] "In the end, did you have to do s"> I had just installed MicroG and it worked. I remember signature spoofing not being enabled but it is uninstalled now

<retracey[m] "I had just installed MicroG and "> Would suggest factory-reset or reflash to make sure you got rid of that thing.

<!ㅤ> Apparently there was a work around for using microg inside a profile

Quick question im hoping to get some help with: lets say I wanted a second profile for banking that needed microG to run. If I install microG on that profile, will the main profile be untouched by this? Does this work or is it nonsense?

<strcat[m] "simply by being present / enable"> This is totally true. You can take that crappy tik tok as example. It crashes with microg and works fine without it because it tries to utilize firebase UI thinking play services are present on the device.

per profile microg implementation will be the best whenever implemented. Hopefully soon.

<!ㅤ> No microg

Yes, they work fine without microg. Snapchat(Checks for safety net if play services are present) & tiktok won't work with it.

<!ㅤ> Without any microg

i just installed grapheneos with microG and its great

<retracey[m] "i just installed grapheneos with"> MicroG is not fully deGoogled.

<!Hulk> retracey[m]: please read github.com/Peter-Easton/GrapheneOS-…have-microg-with-signature-spoofing

So is microG is a bad idea?

I dont care about being ENTIRELY de-googled, I will need a few services still for the camera, gmail, and vanced youtube or whatever. I feel like microG seems fine and I don't really understand how that wall of text affects me negatively

I imagined you had to copypaste the MicroG thing since this was getting repetitive.

<retracey[m] "I dont care about being ENTIRELY"> microg is cringe lol

<duck[m] "microg is cringe lol"> how

* Er... I may not have clarified myself. I don't think the copypaste is annoying ─ I actually think the fact that people trust MicroG is getting repetitive.

<akc3n[m] "Ya it gets asked a lot jj1013. A"> It's not the copypaste that annoys me, it's the repetition of people trusting MicroG, and that's why I feel pity for you... because you actually had to write an entire copypasta thanks to these people.

<retracey[m] "and its a restricted connection "> You think MicroG lets you control what data you send to Google?

is vanced microG any better? idk how I'm going to give up the real youtube app

<retracey[m] "is vanced microG any better? idk"> NewPipe is already functional enough for me.

<retracey[m] "I can set permissions for google"> what permissions are you denying to microg anyways

it wont run without microG in my experience

Now I don't need to use microG lets go

<retracey[m] "Now I don't need to use microG l"> Great.

<retracey[m] "wdym?"> How did you get MicroG working then?

jj1013.: if you've not got Google Play (or microG) on a device any version of Signal or Molly gets push notifications straight from Signals servers rather than via Googles push notifications

I tried to run outlook on graphene, but the app crashes. Works well on my other phone with micog. Can anyone confirm that microg is required for outlook?

<GrapheneOS-Teleg "<!Jeremy> Sign in with your own "> not good way, play store purchases required play store og client to verify purchases not even microg can help

so, woul it be a good idea to install microg for google camera?

christhepanda[m]: while you can download and sideload APKs, MicroG generally has to be integrated into the operating system to work as it must poke holes in the Android security model to function (namely doing things like allowing apps to pretend that they're other apps and lie to the OS). So I doubt it's going to work that way.

microg, but that is a bit of a security hole.

and microg is available

<backupaccmovedto "you can root it"> microG is not even near deGoogled.

<jj1013[m] "microG is not even near deGoogle"> im aware

Gravity_is_a_lie: microG comprimises the android security model, it has been discussed here many times. It is not support nor will it ever be included. Here is the log, if you scroll down and read through it, your gcam question is answered here. freenode.logbot.info/grapheneos/20210330#c7443317

thank you for that log about microG, there's a sentence there i didnt realize

<!Le marchand de rêves> Would it be possible to have some details about those dummy FLOSS gapps replacements mentioned?Will it have some of the effects of microG improving apps compatibility and allowing us to use apps that currently don't work?Is there an ETA for that yet?

calyx has microg tho right

<urrrrmm[m] "GropheneOS is the most toxic com"> Ah yes, the toxic community didn't accommodate the consideration to have own builds on microG and the all-good influencer savoring on taking credit on it

Is there a way to install microG into Graphene or a chance for a support in the future

<magicspringroll[ "Is there a way to install microG"> No, microG is not supported.

magicspringroll: having microg requires compromising the security model of the android phone. Additionally, microg is a half-baked project not up to GrapheneOS standards. The stub implementation coming in the future will resolve some of the issues users have without having google play services.

magicspringroll: it had been discussed here in the past. I've just saved some of the explanations and quoted from the devs and project members regarding microg, etc. There in my reply. Hope that helps answer your inquiry.

<skwisgaar[m] "magicspringroll: having microg r"> Pardon me but what is stub implementation and will it make strict gps apps run better?

For me I have a bank app and other apps that requires microg atleast..if that issue will be solved in any foss secure implementation ill switch in a heartbeat

magicspringroll: it’s going to be an extremely useful feature that I hope gets adopted by other projects since it will be a much better option than microg

<X​a_bi> Microg is only useful for corona tracking and gcam

<GrapheneOS-Teleg "<Xa_bi> Microg is only useful fo"> Also for taxi apps it seems

Can't use microG to do all the stuff it's designed to do just by installing its apk on GrapheneOS.

This isn't topical to GrapheneOS, so I'll only touch on it here: Google's software includes Play Services. MicroG is an open-source handler for some certain, limited functions of Google Play, but it's been discovered via reverse engineering. Some other projects like it because they want some Google play functionality, but at GrapheneOS, the view held here is that Play Services are considered

Because MicroG must also countermand significant assumptions of the Android security model, GrapheneOS will never include it.

<B​_i_s_c_u_i_t_s> hi all, I have been using graphene happily with google camera and photos (microg installed) for a year, but on moving to a pixel 5 the process isn't working. Is there any way round this please?

<B​_i_s_c_u_i_t_s> is there a microg I have missed which plays a bit better with graphene or is it off to calyx with me?

We don't have microg

<GrapheneOS-Teleg "<B_i_s_c_u_i_t_s> ah right ok. S"> Pick one: freedom from Google or microg

Hello, I came across some posts where people installed gcam with microg but they were a year ago.

I was wondering if I could install gcam with microg on my pixel 4a instead of open camera?

Why "with microg"?

Apparently, at the time the gcam worked only if microg was installed. It would give a black screen if microg wasn’t installed.

Would love to have it work without microg

Also calling another android OS based on AOSP with microg degoogled is even stranger, since microg is adding back google services lol

Just went full on GrapheneOS. For my use case I might be able to live with F-Droid but I'm curious what everyone else is doing to find apps. I've used Aurora but with microG not so fun.

*without microG

<A​ngry_Lasagna> How is unprivileged microg going?Whom can I pay to make it?

<A​ngry_Lasagna> Mostly fdroid, some from source, some bins from author, some proprietary via Aurora. There are surprisingly few apps hard depending on playservices nowadays. Many can be binary patched to ignore the check and still work but update maintenance is pita. Its actually better on graphene than on lineage without google packet nor microg, less crashing things.

Im hoping Im not opening a can of worms asking this... but I gathered that grapheneos vs microg vs functioning messengers is a bit of a messy topic. From what I gather theres not gonna be any microg spoofing support, so does that mean grapheneos is a nogo for things like signal/threema?

I can only see that both Threema and Signal refuse(?) to register with the microG CMS, whereas the Push notification tester has no quarrel

microG isn't relevant, it's not supported

microG doesn't offer an alternative push service but rather has an incomplete implementation of Google's push service

there's no microG so whether or not stuff works with the very incomplete implementation of Play services with that just isn't relevant

Does microg 'break' privacy/security ?

<IPFreely "Does microg 'break' privacy/secu"> madaidans-insecurities.github.io/an…roid.html#microg-signature-spoofing

<Maxattax "Is there a decent workaround for"> some apps work with microg (even without root/patches) for push notifications, although idk if that's recommended by grapheneos

installing microG will not provide a working implementation of it for multiple reasons

Hey guys! Can you tell me the best way to get playstore functionality? MicroG or flash 3rd parity gapps like nikgapps? Thank you..

skwisgaar[m] Sure? I'm thinking of patching the boot.img with magisk and then flash it back.. Also I read something about microg support from grapheneos but didn't understand..

By rooting and adding microg you significantly decrease the security of the device.

microG has significant security issues itself

dazinism yes but i read on the website something about microG not being a good option so i think play store would be the same?

<!Linus> Also, gcam work without gapps or microg?

Tinfoil Enthusiast: from what I understand MicroG cannot be configured with Graphene OS

Oh no not microG, I’m just trying to understand how the minimal Play services would work.

<Naptune "Hey, I was considering getting a"> Hi Naptune GrapheneOS will never include either Google Play services or another implementation of Google services like microG.

Naptune: you cannot install microg on GrapheneOS

The download installs a manager which installs microg and the vanced app for you, which from the sounds of it wouldn't work with Graphene

Can microG be used with GraphenOS?  Hubby has a few apps that he would still like to run from his phone after the switch to GOS.

rosie48: are you sure those apps have a hard dependency on Google services? have you checked? and if they do, many apps won't work with microG anyway (especially reliably, over time, even if they work today chances are they'll break in the future at some point)

2) have him use calyx os as a stepping stone to GOS (it is degoogled, can relock bootloader, and supports microg)

walter80[m]: it takes AOSP, and adds Google services to it (microG) along with not replacing Google as the provider for non-proprietary services

microG has security holes in how they reimplement Google services btw, and they don't enforce the security semantics that it is supposed to do

not only via microG

Grapheneos website says you are looking into an alternative to microg, is that not correct?

<strcat "microG has security holes in how"> not to mention that their official ROM, lineageos MicroG is just Lineageos (which has lacking security) with a patch which allows it to fake signatures, weakening the security even further

which people said its working. and i also tried with microg but no luck...someone have suggestions?

microg

Damn they where an excelent microg degoogled os for the middle people

pizzaeater69[m]: i'll just have to see. if it doesnt work im thinking i should try to apply microG and hope that solves it. it seems by reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/du…_experience_with_mobilt_bankidswish that id doesnt work

That's the planned implementation after considering between Play services stub and microG fork on maintainability, privacy and security

I want to install and use the Google Pixel Camera app on my Google Pixel 3 XL with GrapheneOS, any way to do it? IF possible then without MicroG, anyone have any viable solution? I am sure it would work on other Pixel devices too and others might want to do the same... Thanks a bunch in advance!

ghkngfjkbgi[m] I got PXv8.1_GCam-v1.2.apk working on grapheneos on Pixel4 after loading microG first. celsoazevedo.com/files/android/google-camera/f/changelog1526 Also loaded google photos but photos crashes a lot. No problem with the camera so far. Good info here but I couldn't get the APK created by the "adb pull" command to work

ghkngfjkbgi[m] I'm not recommending PX GCam dated 2021-01-25. Just noting that it has worked for me. Also I'm not recommending microG just that I haven't experienced problems yet in about 2 weeks of testing and using as daily driver for 5 days.

asdf54: Doesn't it bitch about you changing the OS, if microg has been smushed into the situation?

Hi, not about grapheneos but I was wondering, is it possible to uninstall all gapps on a pixel? Just stay with android stock without gapps and if I needed install microg?

case_: microG requires OS integration and provides an implementation of Google services as part of implementing a subset of the OS APIs

Does it have microG?

hypokeimenon🖤‍❤️🏳️‍🌈: microG is certainly not that

microG is literally Google services

<hypokeimenon[m] "Does it have microG?"> no, gms nano i guess, i dont remember which one i installed but it was the minimal real google play services package. the "completely blocked" part means i eliminated all permissions it could possibly use to reach the internet, and i usually monitor the network traffic to make sure this shit wont ever see the internet. playstore is disabled but google play services needs

microG skips doing stuff like key pinning for TLS and other forms of it for local app components, etc.

pinkylittlecat: too infeasible to fork microG, make it secure, and make it work substantially better, plus it'll keep being unavailable for each new major release for a period of time

<K​ileXt> Actually usefull to get microg installed on it so that apps that needs it kind of work

MicroG still communicates with Google, you know.

but microg has the push service implementation?

microG is only an implementation of a small subset of Play services, and FCM push does not work reliably, which is what they are saying they need

<strcat[m] "microG is only an implementation"> Okay sorry then

i'm here because i'm pissed with my bank, they rely on google play services to run their app. i've read in a few places that there's a development going regarding using a microG-like approach to do a signature spoofing specifically to only google play services (if i understood it right, because enabling signature spoofing globally is absolutely terrible in a security-wise view)

and we don't have plans to do anything with microG anymore

* i'm here because i'm pissed with my bank agency, they rely on google play services to run their app. i've read (ie. grapheneOS's official website) that there's a development going on regarding using a microG-like approach to do a signature spoofing specifically to only google play services (if i understood it right, because enabling signature spoofing globally is absolutely terrible in a security-wise view)

guys how are you doing with that one app that requires play services or microg? in my case it is the banking app :(

so, is anyone using microg at all?

<Sparty "another question: do you guys us"> MicroG is not provided by GrapheneOS. For google play install Aurora Store.

i mean microg also provides an api substrate that is needed by a lot if not almost all apps to work

<Sparty "i mean microg also provides an a"> I find the last part of this statement to be wildly inaccurate

Real[m]1: Always use F-Droid, use ClassyShark3xodus to check for trackers on your apps, never use GApps, not even MicroG.

"To get the gcam port working on Graphene I installed the MicroG Services Core from F Droid (there is a dedicated MicroG repo), ... With the MicroG Core installed, the Gcam port will be satisfied, start up and does produce great photos compared to the stock camera."