<strcat "don't see what that would accomp"> Don’t you have equal control over Copperhead with your 50% share?

he's just a narcissist who can't get over the biggest mistake of his life which was betraying me and screwing over the project

warmjuice: I have equal voting shares, I do not currently have any actual power though

warmjuice: and they really don't care about stuff like laws anyway

Ironically enough, they can't live without the open source projects. Historically, they never released an OS without the sources published from either AOSP Alliance (android-prepare-vendor) and/or GrapheneOS repo

Friendly reminder that it took them 'til November to port Android 11, when all the hardening has been ported by then

reality, laws, etc. are concepts beyond Copperhead's understanding

you can look at the archive I linked earlier and see for yourself that James just completely changed his story over time and says something completely different now than what he previously acknowledged as fact

he previously acknowledged that I created and own the original CopperheadOS open source project

he thought after he pushed me out that it was the end of it

that I was just going to go do something else and he could profit off my work unopposed after forking it and migrating people to his new OS which he'd make closed source soon enough

that was his expectation

he wasn't anticipating that I was just going to continue working on my open source project and rebuild after all the damage he did to it

and that'd I'd continue standing up to him

* and that I'd continue standing up to him

he's completely desperate now

he chose to betray me and go against everything that had been agreed upon

and it wasn't even in his own interest at all

he screwed himself over and can't accept that so he built a false reality for himself and has somehow managed to dupe a group of people into believing his totally false narratives he's gradually crafted based on repeatedly changing his story over the past 2 years

he pretends it's some big successful company when it's far from that

pretends they serve these major companies/NGOs lol

I’ve followed the story since your early postings. Simply, good for you, and thank you,

all they do is scam a little subset of the Bitcoin community

right by bitcoin standards this scam is insignificant.

* right by bitcoin standards this scam is insignificant. anyone really in that space has a flood of scams

* right by bitcoin standards this scam is insignificant. anyone really in that space deals with basically a continuous flood of scams

anyways.. granphene os is really lovely, thank you. :)

the reason they keep making these escalations and endlessly attacking us is because they see it as essential to destroy GrapheneOS to cover up everything they've done and to wipe out the far superior freely available original project

as otherwise there is no actual business case for a drastically inferior closed source version where you pay a bunch of money and then get charged for updates and the DRM/tracking cuts them off if you stop paying

they also have no interest in actually building anything good just rent seeking based on work they didn't even do themselves

they don't aim to improve it or anything, just to make money, which is based around them marketing / branding / pretending it does stuff it doesn't

they pretend they include features they don't have and pretend they developed stuff they didn't

not just with us but with upstream too

they take credit for all kinds of stuff they didn't do

the whole thing is a complete scam

hello

is there a way to show the rest of the programs I have running on graphene on the top left corner by the time?

it shows 4 with the dot by the end for the rest of them. I want to be able to see what else is running in the background without swiping down

hello, im trying to download GrapheneOS for my pixel 4a with the web USB method but when i get to the "Flashing factory images" step, it goes though the process andthen stops on the "fastbootd" screen leaving me with the options:

reboot system now, enter recovery, reboot to bootloader and power off

Don't do anything with it

Just wait til it reboots back to Bootloader interface

for how long?

because its been a good 10min or so

another 5 minutes and unfortunately nothing has changed

Did the website show some error, like under the Flashing section?

nope it just says restarting device over the blue bar that is full

Try ctrl+shift+j and look at errors or outputs there

ok

What does it say there?

the last thing it says is USB device disconected but its still plugged in

Oh, it's a cable problem

darn

Or usb port, try plugging it somewhere else

ok ill try that, thanks for the help

Since the data transfer did not start yet (iirc), unplugging and replugging might help

thank you again for the help, switching ports fixed the problem

So how can I roll back graphene to android 10 so I can use vmos

Reflash a stock android version.

no rollback

I see

This website shows different prices on a pixel for "activate now", and "activate later." bestbuy.com/site/google-pixel-4a-12…-just-black/6422517.p?skuId=6422517 If I'm flashing Grapene to it, what does "activation" mean to me?

Well, they are both "unlocked"

I have no idea what they mean by activation .

Sim card maybe?

I think the Activate now is the carrier variation

Yes, activate with the carrier.

The information on their site it contradictory. They say "activate now" locks you into your carrier, yet they list it as "unlocked". Sure, it's unlocked...until they lock it.

Save the trouble and buy it from google store or their amazon store.

<redbeard72 "This website shows different pri"> You won't be able to flash GrapheneOS with a locked phone.

ahh, that's good to know!

oh man this is cool internet.nl/mail/grapheneos.org/486333 !

lmoa

* lmao

suckuriteeeee ⬆️

What does this mean: Our Play services app won't have any special privileges or whitelisting in the OS like Play services or microG?

Does it mean that GrapheneOS can access google play store?

* What does this mean: Our Play services app won't have any special privileges or whitelisting in the OS like Play services or microG? This is from Graphene Website.

<iantucenghi[m] "Does it mean that GrapheneOS can"> matrix.to/#/!omAJrepvwSfkXJrqbK:mat…&via=matrix.org&via=privacytools.io

Oh, wrong reply, that should have been from the first message. For the second message, Play store can always be accessed without Play services through Aurora Store

<carbonatom[m] "You won't be able to flash Graph"> spend the extra $50 and buy the unlocked "activate later"

i walked into a bb, handed them cash, grabbed a mint sim, they asked for a phone number, i asked for the girl's phone number.

definitely stay away from locked, i tried binning a locked phone. no joy

you could do as suggested by carbonatom and get it from google or amazon, but with ship times likely better off walking into bestbuy and paying the same price

can unlocked pixels call emergency services?

Without a sim

<DFuchsiaOS_when "matrix.to/#/!omAJrepvwSf"> Thanks.

Hey everyone! I just installed graphene on my first android phone. Trying to be more conscious about privacy and moving away from Apple. Any tips? Does using the Aurora store compromise privacy?

<skreett[m] "Hey everyone! I just installed g"> If you get apps that spy on you, yes

skreett: discussion about apps is best done in #grapheneos-offtopic:matrix.org

for future reference

Thanks for the info take_a_deep_breath|mare I'll keep that in mind :)

Is the source of pixel 5 (new) capable of 5G?

rimpossible[m]: yes

Ok. Does it build on a OpenBSD dev env with only 8GB of RAM?

i tried building it on 8GB RAM . didnt succedd

Amazon s3 ?

* i tried building it on 8GB RAM . didnt succeed . but it was a low spec machine

Aws

rimpossible[m]: maybe without building the kernel

kernel LTO step requires a lot of RAM

Ok, I have now access to an AWS instance, can I compile it there? Which Linux dist do the devs use to compile it reliably?

expanded the officially supported OSes for web installer

these are the OSes where it's regularly tested and the instructions cover everything required

cool, glad that GrapheneOS can flash to GrapheneOS now

(was supported for a while afaik, just documented now)

the difference is now it's going to be regularly tested and confirmed to be working properly

Sounds like a cool way to upgrade! Don't believe that signature verification is possible though (in a way that doesn't entirely make it useless)

<braxtono[m] "can unlocked pixels call emergen"> Of course. Any phone can. Even without SIM

Hi, i wanted to set up my second user profile and the first thing i did is trying to install f-driod but it didnt install. Is this because i already have fdroid on my main profile?

* Hi, i wanted to set up my second user profile and the first thing i did is trying to install f-driod but it didnt install. Is this because i already have fdroid on my main profile? If this is the case how do i get fdroid to the second profile?

<the-real-johndoe "Hi, i wanted to set up my second"> Hi. It is because of version mismatching. Maybe you already update fdroid on your main profile. So your second profile wont install.

the-real-johndoe please download it from here. github.com/f-droid/fdroidclient/releases

<StVM[m] "the-real-johndoe please download"> that's a mirror and doesn't contain apks/releases

the-real-johndoe: f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.fdroid

Sorry for my mistake. Please use above link, will delete my comment to prevent confusion. Thanks sphinxcat.

It worked thanks StVM and sphinxcat !

Btw will my main profile get compromised in any possible way if i download microG on my second profile

* Btw will my main profile get compromised in any possible way if i install microG on my second profile

no, but microG isn't supported on GrapheneOS

apps are sandboxed regardless of profiles anyway

<strcat "apps are sandboxed regardless of"> Yeah i read that on the site just wanted to be sure i guess

hi

hi

I read that firmware on pixel is reset to be linux

but, I am not for sure if there are parts of google firmware still there.

like for a pixel 4 XL

not clear what you mean

I know it is an incredible amount of work to build firmware from scratch

lol they joined for like 1 second and left (chilly)

somenerd[m]: nah freenode forced nick rename

the forum bounced the name,  it is  me

from name being taken

ohh I see

Guest7501: I think you're confused, and I don't think there's a productive discussion to be had about it here

think they're asking if there's google firmware left after flashing or something

graphene is an OS,  firmware for the google pixell phones,

graphene replaces that with  ???

how much of google blobs are left

you're welcome to port it to another device if you don't want to use a Pixel

???

it can be built for any device with AOSP support

Guest7501: as I said, I think you're confused, and it's not a productive discussion for this channel

if I am left with firmware from the manufacturer, how is it safer, than say just android

Guest7501: if you don't want a Pixel, don't buy one

Guest7501: grapheneos.org

Guest7501: grapheneos.org/features

Guest7501: grapheneos.org/faq

Guest7501: no matter which hardware you put an OS on, the hardware comes from the manufacturer

Guest7501: please read the content on our site about the OS, and read what we're written on the @GrapheneOS Twitter account about our ongoing plans to work with hardware partners

there's a lot of room to improve even if firmware is the same

Guest7501: but regardless of what hardware is used, the manufacturer made the hardware

that is a given

also the firmware

it is not clear what the situation is now

it's not a distinction that matters in this regard aside from it being a good thing to be able to provide security updates for as much as possible

Guest7501: it is clear

usually web pages are a bit behind real efforts

Guest7501: please read the content on our site and @GrapheneOS

also don't think that firmware is used for spying..

or tracking

well thanks for talking to  me

Guest7501: read what we're written about working with hardware partners

if you don't want a Pixel, I recommend not buying a Pixel

an iPhone is a good alternative

not much more to say beyond that

you're welcome to port GrapheneOS to another device

that changes nothing from the perspective of my security.  I do not trust google.  I have an Iphone, and I do not trust apple.

there are not other reasonably secure devices available with support for installing another OS right now

Guest7501: okay

Guest7501: so use another device

Guest7501: you're welcome to port GrapheneOS to another device, but as I said, there aren't other secure options available

Guest7501: please read the content on our site and on @GrapheneOS in particular about working with hardware partners

Guest7501: twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1356385317952102400

Guest7501: grapheneos.org/faq#device-support

it doesn't seem like you're read much of the content on the site as you don't seem to understand the purpose of the project

 I will look,

before raising a discussion here, please familiarize yourself with what the project provides and works on, and what we have planned for the future

also read what he posts, it's not specifically a "degoogling" project

<Guest7501 "that changes nothing from the pe"> Firmware is not really updated. Grapheneos is not firmware, it is the operating system. Firmware is not used for tracking; if youre that paranoid just use wireshark. As strcat said you can always build Grapheneos for another device.

thanks for talking to me.  You have a lot of information on graphene itself.  as of right now, I have limited data on a hot spot because of storm

the firmware is updated, we ship all the latest firmware

thanks bye

Guest7501: we want to work with hardware partners to make devices built for running GrapheneOS

but regardless

there will be a manufacturer making the phone, and manufacturers making components

<strcat "the firmware is updated, we ship"> Oh whoops. Is that why bad guides **ahem techlore** brick devices? They dont just wipe the OS drive but also the firmware?

they use broken third party tools among other issues

they don't use proper fastboot

and I'd prefer not to mention problematic stuff by name

* Grapheneos itself is not firmware, it is the operating system; it does include a firmware update. Firmware is not used for tracking; if youre that paranoid just use wireshark. As strcat said you can always build Grapheneos for another device.

* Oh whoops. Is that why bad guides brick devices? They dont just wipe the OS drive but also the firmware?

OK thanks.

* Grapheneos itself is not firmware, it is the operating system; it does include the latest firmware. Firmware is not used for tracking; if youre that paranoid just use wireshark. As strcat said you can always build Grapheneos for another device.

I regularly test GrapheneOS on a Kirin-based device to test that there aren't issues there

dropping in AOSP device support works fine, of course for real usage all the hardening would have to be ported

and it'd have to be set up to provide full security updates

there aren't other decently secure devices for us to target right now primarily because they skip a few major security features + skip making secure alternate OS support

such as the iphone

so, we think it's necessary to work with a hardware partner to have them make a device meeting our requirements

Yeah

iPhone doesn't have official alternate OS support at all so no, it's not an example of what I mean

I installed the experimental graphene release a week ago, will it autimatically update to the stable version?

anonym1984: it will get automatic updates

anonym1984: it defaults to using the stable channel

you can use Auditor to check that you're running genuine GrapheneOS

is there any merit to buy a pixel device anonymously like through someone else ? would this give enhanced privacy or make little difference. . it would be installed with graphene.

d11263x[m]: is the NSA after you?

<ry`an "d11263x: is the NSA after you?"> my threat model is high yes.

are you worried about the IMEI being somehow linked to you? You know, besides the fact that the phone will probably tend to be right next to you whenever it connects to the network

okay then you might want to consider not using a phone in the first place d11263x[m]

<ry`an "okay then you might want to cons"> yes i did kinda already think this. but i need the portability of a phone so its hard to find something in between if you understand.

adversaries like the NSA will be able to hack your grapheneos phone too

they will hear everything the phone hears, they will see everything it sees

even turning the phone off might not be sufficient, as the powering off could be faked

<ry`an "adversaries like the NSA will be"> i was gonna strip out it features like the camera and micrphones maybe even the modem too .

I think you'll have a hard time stripping these out of a pixel phone

don't forget the accelerometer too

<ry`an "I think you'll have a hard time "> So your verdict just forget phone all together yes.

if you need to worry about adversaries who would intercept the phone during shipping and install hardware implants? probably yes

<ry`an "if you need to worry about adver"> what if i could buy it with cash ? no shipping involved ?

that would only solve one small problem

you'd still be dealing with an adversary who will most likely be able to hack your phone

ry`an: you're making claims that are actually based on fact

just speculation

you shouldn't be saying things like that in such certain terms when you don't know any of that

I understand everything is fud until proven but i dont think he is unwise atleast to speculate. even the the pixel which super secure with graphene will still rely on proprietary blobs for parts like lte modem and baseband proccessor,. backdoors unknown but i do feel risk is higher with phones that respect

all this depends on your threat model

Assuming the worst case where your adversary is the NSA or similar entity and they're *very* interested in you, I think it is safe to make these assumptions.

Of course, I don't think that such a threat model is realistic for more than a few people on this planet

d11263x: open source != more secure

be aware that you're both breaking channel rules

and it doesn't appear that my hint that you should be talking about things in a more reality-based way was taken

this is not a place to make uninformed claims or speculate about things without that being grounded in reality and clearly presented as what it is

what rule did i break ?

which bit do you not think is grounded in reality?

ry`an: again, you're stating a bunch of things as facts that are clearly not facts but rather your speculation

<strcat "iPhone doesn't have official alt"> an what does an iphone have to do with graphene os ?

it doesn't belong here

it's unrelated

strcat[m]: be more specific

check the messages above

d11263x: I'm not sure why you're quoting a random message from a previous conversation

<strcat[m] "d11263x: I'm not sure why you're"> because its offtopic follow your own rules moderator

d11263x: it's not off-topic

as far as I can tell, I only stated one thing as a fact

and it's clear now that you're just a concern troll trying to disrupt the channel

> because its offtopic follow your own rules moderator

he's an admin? and the owner of the room?

also look above what are you trying to say

someone mentioned it

Yep definitely trolls

d11263x: answering someone's question about which devices would be considered for support is completely on-topic

it's about GrapheneOS support for iPhone (in that context)

ry`an: you're just speculating about what you think the NSA can do and it's just all based on your assumptions

ry`an: I don't really see what it has to do with the channel or why it's useful

if people aren't capable of having a nuanced and reality based discussion then it should happen somewhere else

<somenerd[m] "it's about GrapheneOS support fo"> accept it doesnt support iphone . so its off topic.

> <@lelmister101:matrix.org> it's about GrapheneOS support for iPhone (in that context)

* except it doesnt support iphone . so its off topic.

are you trolling?

please read the conversation there?

* please read the conversation there

It's pointless debating this, but you'd have to be delusional to dispute the fact an adversary with tens of millions to spend will be able to acquire an useful 0day exploit chain against grapheneos devices.

> there aren't other decently secure devices for us to target right now primarily because they skip a few major security features + skip making secure alternate OS support

then after that:

> such as the iphone

ry'an the question is: will they spend it on your phone? Full stop. It's all speculation.

alex-resist: I'm well aware, and I never said anything about that.

ry'an please, at least take this to the offtopic channel.

You're stealing the developers' time

i asked a question about buying a pixel anonymously to use with graphene so its related in every way. I dont appreciate to have my comments deleted when other people inc admin are talking about support for iphone. ( which is not related ).

ry`an: you're changing what you're saying quite a bit now

strcat: I'm not. I said "adversaries like the NSA will be able to hack your grapheneos phone too"

They will certainly be able to do so, but I also doubt that there are any people in this channel who'd need to worry about such things.

I was simply making a point about to d11263x about their most likely unrealistic threat model

s/about//

ry`an: I mostly had a problem with them, not what you were saying

ry`an: but it wasn't helpful how you were engaging with them

ry`an: it would have been better to simply ask what they were trying to accomplish and explain how they could do that or why it doesn't make sense

rather than going into a whole thing about the NSA

you're right

I want to try to have things be constructive

anyway they started going around in circles talking about some random earlier message out of context

just annoyed me too much and had to go

So we should make it like rapsberry project (t.i.n.a)

I

*I've got a question about GrapheneOS installation. I'm running into some issues. Is this the plae to ask?

joshepete: Yes, it's the right place

Awesome!

joshepete: I assume you aren't following the official guide correctly. The steps you described, aren't part of it.

How about using the WebUSB-based installation?

There's no reason not to on Windows

Ok thanks for the recommendation, I have (maybe unwisely) been using a combination of the command line installation, and youtube videos (as well as a host of stackexchange/reddit threads

I'll give that a shot

joshe mine pete mine did that too. I moved the folder into c/program files and ran it from there

Yea, these aren't a good resource for fixing the flashing process of GrapheneOS.

lol theres an actual install guide tho

No, don't hack your way through it

Just follow the guide

not like some random ill-documented rom u find on xda-dev

The reason the script just closes itself is because it can't find fastboot

As it isn't added to path

No, it's not supposed to be double-clicked

Since you just click on it

but also read the install guide

It's not supposed to be clicked

also it needs to be run in powershell

Why even use CLI?

Use the webinstaller

That's what I recommended

joshepete: Follow the guide from the beginning and pay attention where the driver update is mentioned for Windows. That's one of Windows' quirks

Yep, I'm getting going on that rn. I did have to update drivers. I ran into some old driver issues earlier. Thanks for the help I really apprecieate it, keep in mind, this is much newer to me than it is for you all.

joshepete: Sure, all good

Is Vanadium as a browsee more hardened than Bromite in terms of pure security, not anti-fingerprinting?

* Is Vanadium as a browser more hardened than Bromite in terms of pure security, not anti-fingerprinting?

timetravelingman: Did you take a look at grapheneos.org/usage#web-browsing

Yeah I have, but just curious what is explicitly different between the two as far as security other than Vanadium is designed for use with GrapheneOS and doesn't rely on the Chromium DNS-over-HTTPS

<timetravelingman "Is Vanadium as a browsee more ha"> The browser itself is not more secure than bromite, however it uses the security features that GrapheneOS offers.

*some of the features

Overall security in Vanadium will be better, anti fingerprinting is another story.

Notable things that Vanadium has: CFI+zero initialization for all variables

Webinstaller works only with the Pixel phones, isn't it?

GOS only supports pixels

So yes

It's possible that the two projects will merge together in future. But according to Daniel Micay, the browser is not their priority right now.

Or did you mean something else?

* It's possible that the two projects will merge together in the future. But according to Daniel Micay, the browser is not their priority right now.

No

Which source to download to amazon aws to customize/compile for OP Nord?

No official support for other devices I'm afraid

... have no machine with 16G+

Ok

Are there people in that room who did it, unofficial? 🤫

No idea

* It's possible that the two projects will merge together in the future. But according to Daniel Micay, the development is very slow due to the lack of contribution.

About an hour ago josandhepete me posted a long message at the same time. He/She got answered, which is great (seriously I thinks this is beautiful). But I'm still wondering: why do we have to be connected to the internet to OEM unlock. Doesn't this open us up to certain threats?

brdcrm: It's mentioned in the guide why.

brdcrm: you don't on GrapheneOS

you're replacing the whole OS and wiping data as part of installing GrapheneOS anyway

GrapheneOS doesn't require internet access to toggle on OEM unlocking

the stock OS requires it in some cases due to factory reset protection

rimpossible: web installer would work with phones other than Pixels, but at this time the officially supported phones for GrapheneOS are Pixels

rimpossible: the web install code itself can work with other things

brdcrm: our guide simplifies things and doesn't bother explaining the exact details of when the stock OS requires it

<strcat[m] "the stock OS requires it in some"> Yes and that the stock OS (not GrapheneOS) requires it sometimes (new phone) feels like were leaking potential data. Even if we wiped the original OS for GrapheneOS the be installed.

brdcrm[m]: we make GrapheneOS, not the stock OS

brdcrm[m]: you're free to buy a phone from someone selling them with GrapheneOS flashed on them

instead of flashing it yourself

there are multiple ways to buy phones with GrapheneOS but we don't sell them as a project

brdcrm[m]: and you're welcome to wait for there to be phones where GrapheneOS is the stock OS via hardware partnerships where we get to have input into hardware design

<strcat "brdcrm: we make GrapheneOS, not "> I understand and I'm really grateful for that. I'm just wondering - since the internet says a lot of good things about GrapheneOS - just wondering I'd were not missing a potential threat.

brdcrm[m]: I don't understand the complaint and as I said you can buy a phone shipping to you with GrapheneOS on it

There is no complaint at all. I'm really thankful that GrapheneOS exist. Just asking a question which I'm not even fully able to comprehend. So if I somehow communicated this in a wrong way, this was not my intention. Just here to learn, discuss and thank you all that's provided.

I answered it in detail

we choose not to explain that in detail instead of giving clear and simple instructions

it's an install guide

it's not meant to explain why things are the way there are or exactly what would cause you to need to do that rather than when and what you need to do

brdcrm[m]: there's no risk of being connected to the network to carrier unlock, at all.

*OEM unlock?

Sorry, whoops, OEM unlock

because that's what it was about

I was thinking "connected to carrier" and then accidentally typed what else was on my mind by mistake. :P.

^^

<strcat "it's not meant to explain why th"> I'm sorry if I said something wrong. Maybe I'm even in the wrong channel. I was just wondering since i'm fairly new to this all. I completely understand that your guide is not created for details. I just hoped someone here could explain me why or could guided me in the right way. That's all.

<TheJollyRoger "I was thinking "connected to car"> Thank you for replying TJR. With OEM its still the same answer?

brdcrm[m]: Sorry, I meant OEM unlocking there, I mistyped.

"why do we have to be connected to the internet to OEM unlock" internet is not required for OEM unlocking.

just adb/fastboot to execute the commands

brdcrm[m]: you're not going to face any risks by connecting it to the network, letting it update, and hitting unlock.

brdcrm: on startup there is traffic to two points, GrapheneOS website for a ping check I believe, and the qualcomm modem calling to izatcloud.net for GPS location features

Even on the factory operating system, the updates are signed and verified end to end by the handset. It's done for safety (and the update script checks it) to ensure that the bootloader is an up to date version so there aren't any missing features that the flashing script will assume it has.

I think the izatcloud.net is for GPS, might be other modema actions for diagnostics/analytics on qualcomms end

You don't need to log into a google account or transmit any personally identifiable information for this to work.

<nullnode[m] "just adb/fastboot to execute the"> Thank you nullnode, this is what in used to. Didn't want to brick my new phone and the guide said otherwise. I stated this a earlier question. Thank you for replying this solvws the fear i've.

Ah so your question was why is the web flash required?

It's mostly because it's easier and harder for people without knowledge to screw things up

Hello can anyone assist me with a graphene install? I'm stuck

brdcrm[m]: Please use the web installer at grapheneos.org/install/web , you'll find this will go much more smoothly, and it's faster.

Ahoy anonxyz[m], what problems be ye having?

<TheJollyRoger "brdcrm: you're not going to face"> I understand you mistyped. Your answer is very helpful as well. Any chance you're able to hook me up with a artical or such that explains me why this is not a risk?

brdcrm: with regards to the web flash? or what?

brdcrm[m]: sorry, I don't have a third-party link for you at this time.

brdcrm: the Android dev site will have the most through documentation explaining some of the design choices

<TheJollyRoger "brdcrm: sorry, I don't have a th"> Cool. Thanks anyway. All of you

I am trying to flash the graphene factory image. But when I try to flash the "./flash-all.bat" file nothing happens ?

nullnode[m]: the OS downloads GPS almanacs, that's it

nullnode[m]: grapheneos.org/faq#default-connections covers all that

we could host the GPS almanacs ourselves if we wanted

it's a little database of the expected sat positions at given times

anonxyz[m]: I'll ask you a couple questions to get an idea of where you are: First up, where are you in the installation? Have you unlocked the bootloader? What is the output of `fastboot --version`?

And what is the output of `fastboot devices`?

<strcat "it's a little database of the ex"> how much can it hurt geolocation if I block those DNS requests?

I have a lurking suspicion of what the issue is, but if you can answer those for me I'll be able to nail it down.

anonxyz[m]: recommend using grapheneos.org/install/web

nullnode[m]: it will make it take a lot longer to get an initial lock

nullnode[m]: you can read the code

it just downloads static files

nullnode[m]: it's just hosted on S3 or w/e

anonxyz[m]: yeah, or that, but let me know what it is,

because:

If you're using Powershell and fastboot 30.0.5, and fastboot can enumerate your devices, and fastboot can unlock your device, BUT fastboot hangs when running flash-all.bat with no activity,

this indicates one of two things:

A) the cable you're using is improperly traced, and is missing the wire that fastboot needs for talking to the bootloader. This can happen in cables that otherwise function perfectly for everything else.

B) The same has happened to either your motherboard's USB slots or your BIOS' USB firmware. Many vendors don't implement USB fully on all the ports on the motherboards and just do the bare minimum required by most users to do what most users do. If switching cables and switching slots doesn't solve it, try another computer using the web install.

<TheJollyRoger "anon.xyz: I'll ask you a couple "> Hi thank you! I have the BL unlocked. My FB version is 31.0.0-7110759

anonxyz[m]: Got it. It might be A or B. The Google Brand cables actually will work OK for installation, so if you're using one of those, it may be your motherboard's USB slots or your BIOS' USB firmware not implementing all the features fastboot needs.

<strcat "anon.xyz: recommend using https:"> Thanks but I have windows 8.1 which is not compatible

anonxyz[m]: the cli install guide expects Windows 10 too

anonxyz[m]: so either way, you aren't on an officially supported OS

you should use the web installer

<TheJollyRoger "anon.xyz: Got it. It might be A "> OK I have tried several cables

anonxyz[m]: I hate to say this but it might be the motherboard's USB firmware. We can't really say much more about an unsupported operating system, 8.1 went out of mainstream support three years ago.

So it's no longer getting driver updates, especially to the android bootloader interface driver.

A lot has changed since 2018.

So it could be either of those.

Can I try it on a live boot of Ubuntu or arch? Or would the liveboot mess things up?

I mean trying the web installer

anonxyz[m] I've unfortunately never tried a live boot of Ubuntu. You will need Chromium to do it.

So it'll work on an installed boot of Arch with Chromium and all its prerequisite packages installed.

Is there another way within the manual install via command line to fastboot flash the system image?

Even if there was, if your computer's USB interface isn't implementing all the features of USB that fastboot requires, I would not recommend it.

Lest you brick.

The directions and web installer have been developed, written, and tested specifically for those specific conditions that they spell out.

So we disregard them at our own peril.

<anonxyz[m] "Can I try it on a live boot of U"> I did my install using a live LUbuntu, following the command-line instructions. No problem, other than running into the not-enough-space problem, which is also mentioned and a solution described in the instructions.

justanotherlurke: well, dandy!

<justanotherlurke "I did my install using a live LU"> Thank u, perhaps I will try booting up lubuntu 😁

Seems like the most pain-less method for my situation at this point

<anonxyz[m] "Seems like the most pain-less me"> Worked well for me. The udev-rules were already included, downloading the up-to-date adb/fastboot-tools according to the instructions easy ...

What’s up with the camera on the Pixel 4a it takes 5 seconds to snap a picture once you press it ?

Can GrapheneOS implement a fix for the Android “feature” that requires location services to be turned on and permission granted to an app that wants just wants to use Bluetooth (but not location)?

adeus[m]: that's not the case, apps don't need location to pair with a bluetooth device

you're wrong

it uses case-by-case consent

apps only need location to do bluetooth scanning and that certainly is a feature because that is a form of location scanning

apps do not need to scan nearby bluetooth devices themselves to pair with a bluetooth device with the user's permission

adeus[m]: 4a definitely doesn't take 5s to take a picture

<strcat "adeus: that's not the case, apps"> the supergreat covid app needs that what i also thought is weird as it advertised as only bluetooth but hey we also need location but dont use it

<strcat "adeus: that's not the case, apps"> Hi mr cat it’s often the case unfortunately just google it many many apps forced to get user turn on location just to use Bluetooth it’s an upstream bug with Android

For any app using BLE

<r0tt0r[m] "the supergreat covid app needs t"> Yes many apps it’s not developers fault it’s how Bluetooth low energy in android is used. For example also like ledger live app for ledger nano same thing

adeus: it's not true

adeus: already told you it wasn't true, and remains untrue

adeus: read developer.android.com/guide/topics/…nnectivity/bluetooth-le#permissions

> Because discoverable devices might reveal information about the user's location, the device discovery process requires location access. If your app is being used on a device that runs Android 8.0 (API level 26) or higher, use the Companion Device Manager API. This API performs device discovery on your app's behalf, so your app doesn't need to request location permissions.

adeus: after being corrected about saying something that's untrue, please stop

adeus: app developers do not give accurate information to users on why permissions are required and they aren't a reliable source for this information

they make excuses

that includes open source apps

apps DO NOT need location to pair with a Bluetooth device

they need it to SCAN for devices arbitrarily

this is not a bug

it would be a bug if it DID NOT work this way because it would leak location information to them

we're quite happy that Bluetooth support does not leak location information to apps without location access and won't be breaking it

apps are completely capable of using Bluetooth without location permission

the location permission wouldn't work if apps could do stuff like scan for bluetooth devices without it

if you search for pretty much any variation of that you find the answer pretty quickly about the non-discovery API not requiring Location

the reason you have been told otherwise is app developers have legacy code and prefer making excuses than acknowledging that it is on their to approach things in a better way

they want everyone to treat them as fully trusted and don't see any issue with requiring totally unnecessary permissions and other access

so they mislead users and create common misconceptions among users about how things work

@strcat:matrix.org thank you mr cat for that comprehensive answer. I am going to follow up with developers to improve the apps then.

adeus[m]: don't know what's wrong with your camera, try rebooting

much faster here

adeus[m]: try with / without the HDR toggle turned on

<strcat "much faster here"> I have disabled hdr. It is very slow I’ll post a side by side comparison with iPhone

adeus[m]: don't need a comparison

not helpful

don't need more videos

suggest trying the reboot I suggested and trying Open Camera

and turn off flash if it's on

adeus: I think issue is just that you have flash on, turn off flash, HDR should work fine without a delay

no flash + no HDR try that, and no flash + HDR on

flash adds delay + makes pictures low quality

@strcat:matrix.org: thank you Sir I have disabled flash it works much better

adeus: I don't know if it makes sense to use the HDR toggle or not, guess you can experiment

but definitely have flash off whenever you don't really need it

maybe we should disable it by default

OK reporting back. Successful install of graphene via CLI on Linux manjaro following arch instructions 😁

Another question: my bootloader says device is loading a different is when I boot up, can I flash a bin image over this warning so that it will not appear?

anonxyz[m]: glad to hear it worked!

No, that portion is a part of the bootloader. It's normal and expected behaviour, but you cannot change it.

anonxyz[m]: Welcome aboard the ship!

Thanks for the advice everyone!

You're welcome! If you find GrapheneOS useful, please throw us a tip at grapheneos.org/donate if you can, this ship is kept sailing by donations and donations alone, so we don't have to answer to corporate interests.

The only time you'll have to worry is if that screen turns orange and gives you "Software Integrity Not Guaranteed."

If that happens, the bootloader has been unlocked. You can turn OEM unlocking off again, by going back to developer options once you get past the welcoming screen, turning off OEM unlocking, and then turning off developer tools.

Since fresh out of a flash, GrapheneOS will have the OEM unlocking toggle set to "On."

If you're also wondering about verification or integrity self-monitoring, you can check out attestation.app/tutorial and use the project's in-house attestation server to self-monitor.

GrapheneOS 2021.02.19.15 release: grapheneos.org/releases#2021.02.19.15

just double checking some things before pushing out via Beta channel

in Beta channel now

> <@damienrg:matrix.org> On Windows via CLI it fails at: `Sending sparse 'system_b' 3/4 (262140 KB) : FAILED (Error reading sparse file`.

> Any idea?

The problem was due to the USB C port of both PC. I bought a USB-A to USB-C cable and I could install GrapheneOS without problem.

damienrg[m]: that's usually the issue, either faulty USB C ports or faulty USB-A to USB-C cable

everything else is generally smooth with either CLI or web as long as instructions are followed

<strcat[m] "in Beta channel now"> installing

unfortunately USB cables/ports/hubs, etc. are horrible in general

<strcat[m] "unfortunately USB cables/ports/h"> do you have any recommend brands?

Is there a way to import data (SMS, ...) from another phone?

BTW, where can I find information about multiple users?

damienrg: Seedvault for backup/restore with GrapheneOS -> GrapheneOS

damienrg: some of those apps have import/export stuff in portable formats

which can be used across OSes

can use MTP to transfer files to a user home directory

damienrg: grapheneos.org/faq#encryption explains encryption particularly how it works with multi user and there's a lot more content there explaining stuff about it

damienrg: all apps are sandboxed, and apps within a user profile can request access to certain kinds of shared data tied to that profile such as the home directory, contacts, etc. along with apps within a profile being able to communicate with mutual consent

the purpose of multiple users is that each user has a separate instance of installed apps

there's no shared data or communication between apps across profiles (other than via the network)

* there's no shared data or communication between apps across profiles (other than via the network for apps with network access)

users as isolated workspaces with their own lock method + encryption keys

g2g for now

When I install an application, is it global (all profiles have the application) or local (ie only the current profile has the application)?

<damienrg[m] "When I install an application, i"> local to each profile, but I believe they need to be matching versions if there is overlap

damienrg: installs are per-profile but the OS stores the apk globally

nullnode: you can install a newer version in other profiles

the OS just does the usual signature verification + downgrade protection

any profile can install a valid update to an app

the installs are per-profile but it shares the actual apk install globally

> <@damienrg:matrix.org> When I install an application, is it global (all profiles have the application) or local (ie only the current profile has the application)?

* local to each profile, but I believe they need to be matching(or newer) versions if there is overlap

and any user profile can install an equal or greater version of the app, which upgrades it if it's newer

it's to save space

and doesn't reduce the security of it

OK, how do you organize things? Let's say that I have 2 profiles: A and B. How do you install apps in A and B? You install F-Droid on each profile or is there another method to install apps?

damienrg: you can do that, just keep in mind if you try to install an *older* version of F-Droid than you have in 1 profile that won't work

hi, I'm getting this error message with a failed flashing of pixel 5 "Error reading sparse file" - using kubuntu / cli for process

How do you install F-Droid the first time? I have to use adb?

no

<lordgrunter "hi, I'm getting this error messa"> USB cable/port problem ^^

you don't need adb

you can download it with Vanadium and install it

you have to whitelist Vanadium as a source of apps (regardless, you still have to manually install apps from a whitelisted source)

it guides you through it

not hard

just dl the apk and install

and bear in mind F-Droid has an out-of-date link to the apk on their site

a common mistake is trying to use that to install it in other users after having a newer version of it

which as I said above won't work

USB cable / port problem... ok i'll try a different cable then

you can dl the latest version from the repo page (just keep in mind they put an out-of-date link on each page)

g2g for real now

Just to be sure, the recommended way to use GrapheneOS is to install nothing on the owner profile and create multiple other profiles, no?

sure, that's the FAQ's 'recommendation for a high security setup'

also there appears to be several files that are "not contained within archive" > is this normal?

for example: product.sig, system.sig

Are you flashing Graphene?

For each apps I got a warning saying that the application has been designed for a previous version of Android. Is it normal?

damienrg[m]that worked, thank you very much!!

switched from google's supplied usbc-usbc cable to a usbc-usb3.0 cable i had here

damienrg: yes

<lordgrunter "also there appears to be several"> Yes.

cool cool

<lordgrunter "switched from google's supplied "> I had the same problem and I had to buy a USB-C/USB-A cable.

fair call! kinda stange - i did this on a pixel 3 to test and had no issues with the supplied cable...

pixel 5 different story though

its booted up now!! awesome!! thanks again :)

Most cables are missing the wires needed for fastboot. Even google ones include the bare minimum.

yea for sure

this was such a faster process with this other cable i had here

also find it interesting how fast charge only works using the google power adapter

Phones can complain if you use a third party cable. That's why it's recommended to use the cable that ships with the phone only.

yeah but in this the 3rd party usbc-usbc 3.0 cable worked for flashing the image and the supplied google one didn't

which, tbh, i didn't really expected

expect*

I flashed my pixel with some ancient cable that I found in my house. If it works, it works lol.

But for charging it's best to use the original.

Hello to everyone, I have pixel 2 xl, is safe to flash an obsolete version of graphene os?

oooooooh ok haha i understand. i thought you meant for flashing

What can I do?

good question. the site recommends against it. assuming that obsolete means its no longer being supported with updtes / patches. it'll work, but won't receive further updates and this can leave vulnerabilities in security. i guess if its not your main phone it wouldn't be an issue

Is there a builtin application for password management or a recommended one?

bitwarden are good

miamgr63[m]: the obsolete versions of GrapheneOS are mirrored only for historical preservation purposes only. Your Pixel 2XL handset itself is no longer safe to use. You can factory reset it and send it back to Google for device recycling.

Is it possible to copy a file from main profile to a specific profile?

damienrg[m]: The easiest way to do this is by using a USB drive.

You mean I put a usb key on the device?

damienrg[m]: Yes, plug it in, open it in profile A, save your files to it, switch to profile B, mount the USB drive in profile B.

hey--total newbie to this universe. and i think on Day 1 i may have bricked my Pixel 4a5G trying to troubleshoot grapheneOS install issues. is this the kind of place i can get help trying to see if this thing is salvagable/how to do so? TIA!